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  #1  
Old 11th December 2014, 07:26 AM
jasonsmith jasonsmith is offline
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Default Thunderbirds cd

Thinking caps on!

It turns out we are in the delightful situation of having more music than would fit on a 3CD set. So a dilemma, what would we drop to fit the discs? Do we drop anything? What's the alternative.....Over to you!
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  #2  
Old 11th December 2014, 10:31 AM
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Retroboy Retroboy is offline
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4 discs please , ta .
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  #3  
Old 11th December 2014, 10:31 AM
Simon Morris Simon Morris is offline
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Personally I don't like the idea of dropping any music. If that means a fourth CD then so be it - I'd certainly buy a four disc set - but of course that then forces the price up, which could be an obstacle for anyone on a tight budget.

Having waited many years for Barry's music to be made available I would imagine it would be sacrilege for most fans to miss music off just to fit a three-disc limit. Otherwise I guess the new set would have to be limited to music that has not been presented before (ie on the Silva releases)...or something like that.

Of course, downloads would not have restrictions like these, but most people - myself included - would be loathe to move in that direction, away from CDs. Although one day I suspect it is inevitable...
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  #4  
Old 11th December 2014, 11:11 AM
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Xerxes Iguana Xerxes Iguana is offline
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I'll take everything I can get! Name your price!
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  #5  
Old 11th December 2014, 12:12 PM
Dougurasu Dougurasu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Morris View Post
Personally I don't like the idea of dropping any music. If that means a fourth CD then so be it - I'd certainly buy a four disc set - but of course that then forces the price up, which could be an obstacle for anyone on a tight budget.

Having waited many years for Barry's music to be made available I would imagine it would be sacrilege for most fans to miss music off just to fit a three-disc limit. Otherwise I guess the new set would have to be limited to music that has not been presented before (ie on the Silva releases)...or something like that.

Of course, downloads would not have restrictions like these, but most people - myself included - would be loathe to move in that direction, away from CDs. Although one day I suspect it is inevitable...
I don't mean to be rude, but sacrilege for most fans to miss music? For Thunderbirds there is actually A LOT of music and to be honest, for some tracks you'd probably not even notice if it were missing, there's just that much. There's a piece of music playing when Gordon is trying to rescue Brains at the end of Desperate Intruder and it's pretty... well I won't say forgettable per se, but in comparison to a lot of other stuff, you'd probably not even recognize it as coming from Thunderbirds.

And the other point is that all of Fanderson's previous releases have had missing cues, and there were probably... complaints about that that I'm unaware of, but I don't think a lot of people actually realized this. So sacrilege... I don't think so.

On the other hand, if there's a choice between doing 3 discs or 4 discs, BY ALL MEANS do it 4 discs!! Yes, please! But, I won't be calling it sacrilege if it isn't possible and there will 'only' be 3 discs.

What most people may not realize is that Trapped in the Sky alone has about 16 mins of material (and that's not even counting the alternate takes that Silvascreen used) without repeating anything. Actually most episodes which have original scores have about 15-17 minutes of material, with End of the Road coming up at the top with 18 (of which about 1 or 2 minutes are repeated edited takes of tracks used before). The episodes with have full scores are the following:
  • "Trapped in the Sky"
  • "Pit of Peril"
  • "The Perils of Penelope"
  • "Terror in New York City" (which incidentally also has quite a bit of Stingray)
  • "Edge of Impact"
  • "Desperate Intruder"
  • "End of the Road" (with some repeats from other episodes in this list, not all of this episode's stuff is original)
  • "Vault of Death"
  • "The Man From MI5" (well, I this is mostly half an episode worth of original material, but still worth mentioning, also has a bit of Stingray)
  • "The Imposters" (another half an episode worth of original material)
  • "The Cham Cham" (A LOT of versions of Dangerous Game, some extra lounge music and some Stingray repeats)

Let's be generous and say 11*15 = 165 minutes

Other episodes that have SOME new (original to Thunderbirds) music are:
  • "Day of Disaster" (in the beginning there's a track, and I believe some cool unused scores originate from this one)
  • "30 Minutes After Noon" (radio music)
  • "Sun Probe" (has some cool sounding effects that sometimes intertwine with music from other episodes, could be worth it)
  • "The Uninvited" (mostly extra stuff from Stingray, but one desert theme seems to originate from either this episode or from "The Uninvited")
  • "Operation Crash-Dive" (has that farmer theme, which may or may not be from "Four Feather Falls", still kind of worth it. Some stuff from Stingray)
  • "The Mighty Atom" (the god-awful mouse theme, and the radioactive cloud (which btw is on the Space1999 soundtrack ))
  • "City of Fire" (has some music that the Silvascreen CDs claim was from "Give or take a million")
  • "Danger at Ocean Deep" (quite a few tracks from Stingray, doesn't necessarily require a re-release)
  • "Move - And You're Dead" (some of the music from this episode is new and especially for this episode)
  • "The Duchess Assignment" (some Stingray again and also Supercar or Fireball XL5 but not a lot)
  • "Brink of Disaster" (there's a sped up version of one of the tracks from "The Uninvited" but... hardly worth releasing imho)
  • "Attack of the Alligators" (some music from Stingray again)
  • "Martian Invasion" (previously released music mixed with space effects, some tracks from the Hood flying a plane originally from previous series)
  • "Security Hazard" (some sleepy time music from previous series, but the ending lullaby is probably new. Good way to end a CD)
  • "Atlantic Inferno" (the radio music Parker listens to)
  • "Path of Destruction" (San Marino music)
  • "Alias Mr Hackenbacker" (literally one 10 sec sting used for Penelon is new, for the rest A LOT from previous series)
  • "Lord Parker's 'Oliday" (some tracks from Supercar)
  • "Ricochet" (nothing new apart from the tracks played on the radio, which is an alternate version of "I've Got Something to Shout About" (unreleased) and an alternate version of "Flying High")
  • "Give or Take a Million" (actually surprising amount of new Christmas music, but for the rest Fireball XL5 tracks I believe)

(Realize that I mentioned EVERY episode of the series at this moment)
Let's say on average about 2 mins per episode: 2*20 = 40

Let's add another 20 minutes of commercial versions and opening and endings. That's 165+40+20 = 225 minutes of music. 225 divided by 80 minutes per CD is 2.8 CDs.

Well, we can pretty much conclude that I'm missing something if they say it's not gonna fit! What I am officially missing is quite a few tracks that were released by Silvascreen but which are NOT the takes used for that particular episode. For example the Fireflash theme in "Deadly Plot, The Hood and the Fireflash" is neither of the two versions actually used in the episode, but almost a separate third version that's elongated as if made for listening purposes only. A notorious different take is also the theme when the Empire State Building is moving from "Moving the Empire State Building", the take used on the CD is significantly faster and is simply different in melody when taking the actual music from the episode and comparing. The Silva screen releases are loaded with these kinds of alternate takes, which might well ALSO see a release.

Another guess could be unused material, which I know for a fact there is. There are also alternate takes of Dangerous Game not from the episode. Music created for commercials is a possibility too. And of course the Abomidabel Snowman and the Parker and Lady Penelope songs.

But so far as I can see... 3 CDs really isn't bad That's AT LEAST 90% of all the material actually used in the series. Let me tell you, 3 CDs is gonna make every fan MORE than happy. However, 4 CDs would mean a lot of tracks that were edited version of cues from previous episodes could also be used. But I highly doubt everyone wants to hear every single edited version of the Thunderbirds theme Though I have heard a lot of people requesting for edited tracks (I can assure you with confidence that you can MAKE those edited tracks easily. Editing music isn't that hard and there is proper free software to do it).

So personally, I can definitely see them fill 3 CDs with some (say 10 minutes) of leftovers... but what would you have left after that? It's going to be kind of hard to fill out 4 CDs without seeming like that last CD is just leftovers.

Still Fanderson if you want to do 4 CDs I would be ALL for it, because I want to be surprised Fill those 4 CDs to the brim with goodies if it's possible!

If you want to do 3 CDs and are forced to cut stuff... cut the stuff that's been released on your other Fanderson CDs (for example some Stingray stuff). It'll be missed, but you can refer in the booklet to that set and it might get more people to buy the Stingray set.

Without a doubt though, I will buy it, if it's a 3 CD set or a 4 CD set.
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  #6  
Old 11th December 2014, 01:22 PM
Simon Morris Simon Morris is offline
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Well, it's all down to opinion isn't it Doug. You disagree with mine and that's fine. I do object to your rather arrogant attitude however, which boils down to "I disagree and my opinion is more valid."

Your post I suspect will be very useful though - you clearly know the Thunderbirds music far better than I do (it's not my favourite Barry Gray music or indeed my favourite Anderson Supermarionation music) and I'm sure that it will be useful to the decision-makers in this project.
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  #7  
Old 11th December 2014, 01:26 PM
Simon Morris Simon Morris is offline
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Just one other point - I agree wholeheartedly that not everything that Barry wrote is solid gold and I'm not sure I'd want it either. But if it's available, why not put it on disc and let the listeners pick and choose their own playlists?

Or of course they can use your post above as a guide to produce a CD set that you personally would like, but possibly not everyone else.
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  #8  
Old 11th December 2014, 01:33 PM
deklerkt deklerkt is offline
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Default homework

It looks like you did your homework...
My own Thunderbirds incidental themes are on 10 CDs but that includes all the repetition, edits etc. I think your estimate of 3-4 CDs of new or mostly new material may well be accurate.
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  #9  
Old 11th December 2014, 02:06 PM
matango matango is offline
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Certainly go for 4 discs - a project like this needs to be definitive - in fact if you released 3 discs with still more material missing it might well discourage some buyers knowing that the 3 disc set was incomplete. 4 discs is the sensible choice - a 3 disc set would have a price point that would fix a certain level of sales that would still be made with a price increase to 4 discs (i.e. for most people if they can afford a 3 disc set they can afford a 4 disc one).
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  #10  
Old 11th December 2014, 02:15 PM
Simon Morris Simon Morris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matango View Post
Certainly go for 4 discs - a project like this needs to be definitive - in fact if you released 3 discs with still more material missing it might well discourage some buyers knowing that the 3 disc set was incomplete. 4 discs is the sensible choice - a 3 disc set would have a price point that would fix a certain level of sales that would still be made with a price increase to 4 discs (i.e. for most people if they can afford a 3 disc set they can afford a 4 disc one).


Yes indeed. But I do think Doug has a point when he says that perhaps some judicious decision making might be needed when faced with a lot of alternate cues/takes which are very similar in sound, and which might 'bulk out' a set un-necessarily.

My point originally was that there will be fans who undoubtedly do want all there is to have, no matter how much redundancy there is...
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